WHEATON GROUP B Full Y “ELITE” Results and discussion

Well it was a long time coming, but worth the wait.


First of all a little review. We have been standing at R-U152 L2* for a long time. Even with a Walk Through the Y we failed to yield any downstream (closer to present) SNPS although we did turn up one private SNP for Jerry. The Y ELITE has yielded 2 BRAND NEW shared SNPS FGC22501 and FGC22538. We also have an additional 33 highest quality private SNPS and 11 very high quality and 1 high highest Quality insertion. These are all possible candidates for further testing within the group.

So we Are Now R-L2:FGC22538 The chart below shows our section of the L2 Tree with our very own shared SNPS. A private SNP is one that is only found within a family a Public SNP is that which is found in different families with a span of different STR markers.

I have re-computed the GD (genetic Distance or variation in STR markers) and the DOOTZ is -21 GD (genetic distance)
46/67 with WHEATON Group B. DOOTZ has done a Big Y at FTDNA. The anonymous Mexican sample is actually someone with 3 of 4 grandparents born in Mexico so not sure where the other 1/4 is from ( Maybe Spanish/Portuguese origins) is from the 1000 Genomes Project and a data set without identifying information.

Inline image 1

L2 is estimated at about 5,175 YBP (years before present) My very rough estimate based on STRS is about 2450 YBP (450 BC) for FGC22538 although it could be further back than that. I will update if I get better information on that.[See 4th map for spread during this time frame] This map shows the spread of the “celtic” Bell Beakers. If you follow the River Danube to its Terminus tat the Black Sea you are in Romania.


Map of Bell Beakers 3000-1500 BC from Britain Begins by Cunnliffe


Bell beaker sites and Migrations from Britain Begins


Bell Beaker Pottery and Migrations from Ancestral Journey’s by Jean Manco

Note on the above map the small bits of beaker sites in SW Wales.


Spread of Italic-Celtic language by 500 BC from Ancestral Journeys

Compare the above map with the distribution of U152 (aka S28) the parent of L2

U152 Distribution

At this point a lot of the origin is speculative. My hunch is that the Danube River is the pathway from the Alpine region of  current day Italy/Austria to Romania and our closet match. So whoever was our common ancestor probably started there in the Alps and ours migrated northward and across to the British Isles and plains of Salisbury (Stonehenge) or took a maritime route going through the Mediterranean and up along the coast of Iberia and made its way to the Bristol Channel.

One expert said “If you find other FGC22501+ FGC22538+ in France and Bretagne then your ancestors may have come in prehistoric times or even Romans times. However, if there is FGC22501+ FGC22538+ only in Germany and Central Europe then it means that your ancestors came to Britain with the Saxons.”

We will now have to sit back and wait for more matches but the heavy lifting is done in terms of where we fit in the great human Y-TREE. As more data collects and when we get more matches we will be able to answer these questions better.


Since the SNPS shared are certain to be shared by all of us in the group there is no real need to test for either unless you are just dying to. They would need to be requested of FTDNA or YSEQ to do so. Although we know FGC22538 is tested in the BIG Y and FGC22501 is not. My next step may be to request an evaluation of the Private SNPS to see what kind of panel could be developed at YSEQ. Their current costs of panels range from $88 to $359. My guess is ours would be at the upper end. Other possibility is I am checking with Full genomes on the coverage/availability of their Y Prime. If this is an option it might be the ultimate cheapest route. The other option is take a shot in the dark and test a few SNPs—-of the roughly 45 the majority would be shared among all group members.Then it gets down to parsing who has which one—the ultimate clues to those where we do not know how they connect.

Please feel free to weigh in with thoughts and comments.

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